Proposal 211 (Q3632)
From Nouns Dev
A Nouns proposal.
| Language | Label | Description | Also known as |
|---|---|---|---|
| English | Proposal 211 |
A Nouns proposal. |
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171
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Nouns Presence In Chinese Community
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87
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17 January 2023
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211
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Voting Yes here but in the future would want to see clear evidence that these efforts worked before I vote Yes for any more funding. Otherwise would likely be a future No. If theres a sustaining DAO that gets created as part of the energy here, great. Look to the the other localization subDAOs and efforts, learn from them, replicate what has worked where possible and good luck!
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Well detailed proposal. The deliverables on this are clear at the end of the day: more Chinese nouners. So will be interesting to see how the guys get on.
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Embrace absurdity, Take Risk, Build with/on-top of one another, Cultivate a positive-sum mindset and let go the silo mentality, Do good & have fun - Nounish Appreciate Nounder/Nouner/Delegate who had taken the time to participate in this governance round. We would also like to further express our gratitude to everyone within Nouniverse who casted their votes, both FOR and AGAINST, weve learnt a lot! Special Thanks to Chinse Nouner(s) for the encouragement & those who took time to jump on a call with us pre-onchain, deeply appreciative. Now we continue to proliferate ⌐◨-◨ Karl & Noun 74（HashConfucius.eth）
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had a call with the proposers and i believe them to be both genuine and have an understanding of the market and relationships within it that are not accessible to those of us outside china. its a risky prop, but the risk feels justifiable given the size of the market it could unlock and the amount we might learn from a preliminary attempt to proliferate there
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ambitious prop with a lot of moving parts but large opportunity in an untapped market, spoke with the team and feel good about taking the risk for potential outsized returns
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Excited to see this come to fruition. While there’s some concern about educating people on DAO structure and crypto in general potentially being unlawful, I think focussing on brand and community has value.
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Voting FOR: - Pushing the meme into new communities in this manner is what nouns is uniquely suited for. - Prop is well thought out and has reasonable ask for what is proposed My only concern was not knowing first-hand who the leads are and whether or not they’d be able to execute. After talking w other nouners who have spoken to leads first-hand, I feel comfortable in giving it a shot. That said, I suggest that the leads hold open calls to win over nouners confidence! Make us proud 74 & Karl!
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A reasonable funding ask for a clear and ambitious prop focused on proliferation in new geographies. Love to see it!
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Very excited about proliferating Nouns to the Chinese market. Its a big untapped opportunity. That said, for a proposal of this size from a group with not a lot of previous track record in small grants / prop house, I would have preferred seeing a community multisig & stream just as a matter of process.
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big opportunity, well-planned execution, lfg
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**Prop 211: NO WINS** 18 Yes, 22 No, 3 Abstain 11 Nouncillors abstained from the decision --- **Vote Reasons & Discussion** --- **Mach** | *I think id vote for the nouns chair only a couple other things with a resounding yes. But a lot of the things seem minimal impact for high cost* **Classic_Craig** | *i love irl proliferation when organized and intentional. This appears to be both.* **Bigshot Klim** | *While i think China is one of the most important markets for nouns I would love to see more indication of the builders capabilities to deliver the desired outcomes and would love to see a smaller prop ask before voting yes on the full req* **Graphic.⌐◨-◨** | *Great idea for growth in china* **Benbodhi** | *Excited to see the creative ways to proliferate with this prop.* **Josep** | *I think they should redo the proposal to show how they work and break the budget into 3-4 proposals.* **Mindtoasted** | *Voting yes on this because the Culture of Nounish ☕* **byhardy** | *Just barely leaning no. Its a big sticker price, would like to see it scaled down and then return with some results & something bigger. Theres no time crunch here, so can be resubmitted.* --- For more Nouns DAO proposal discussion head to the Nouncil Discord: https://discord.gg/nouncil
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I dont have a good idea of where the Chinese market currently is with NFTs. So I would prefer to see a lower ask and less ambitious proposal for an initial venture like this. Would consider voting yes if traction is demonstrated in a pilot project.
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17 January 2023
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1. Nouns is a NFT on ETH network. Even Porsche and Land Rover have to use “Chinese Blockchain” to issue their “NFR” in order to abide law in China. If we want to promote the real NounsDAO in China, it’s highly possible that the event been banned on multiple social networks.-2. You will need a crypto exchange to convert Nouns’s fund to fiat currency in order to spend in China, lots of bank accounts been banned because of this.-3. People can only use “Chinese Blockchain” which is a joke and has nothing to do with decentralization to mint “NFR” and promote them legally.-4. I think we need to take the Chinese Communist Party seriously.--Here are some reference links:-1. **China declares all crypto-currency transactions illegal** https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58678907 -2. **What’s Behind China’s Ban on NFTs?** https://thediplomat.com/2022/05/whats-behind-chinas-ban-on-nfts/-3. **China's WeChat suspends some accounts linked to NFTs** https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60950246-4. **China bans financial, payment institutions from cryptocurrency business** https://www.reuters.com/technology/chinese-financial-payment-bodies-barred-cryptocurrency-business-2021-05-18/ -5. **Chinese tech firms pledge to ban NFTs, cryptocurrency marketplaces** https://www.business-standard.com/article/technology/chinese-tech-firms-pledge-to-ban-nfts-cryptocurrency-marketplaces-122070400846_1.html-6. **China shuts 13 underground crypto trading apps, a year after ban, Regulators also targeted 23 crypto media websites and 440 bloggers.** https://forkast.news/china-shuts-13-crypto-trading-apps-year-after-ban/--There are Chinese everywhere around the world, I'd love to promote in those market rather than mainland China, especially when we are dealing with event IRL.
The Chinese market is important for Nouns, and the goal is to find the right people and let them know what NounsDAO is. The proposal aims to promote Nouns in the Chinese market legally, focusing on localized activations by native Nouners who understand the regulations and have experience executing activations in China. The proposer is committed to abiding by regulations and executing activations legally. NFRs (Chinese blockchain NFTs) are alive and well in China, and the government's main concern is hidden financial risks. NFR secondary markets are also legal, with proper licenses.
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3\ “Chinese Blockchain” which is a joke--TBH I don't think you know the local Chinese market well. In terms of user profile, there is a high degree of overlap between NFR users and NFT users(than any other internet user cycle). If it's a JOKE, Porsche, Land Rover, Li-Ning, why would they participate in NFR? Just because something is beyond your comprehension doesn't mean it's not valuable for nouns.-NFR is a good legal way for Chinese people to learn nouns, which we already have detailed in the prop, so I won't go into details here.--4\ I think we need to take the Chinese Communist Party seriously.--We just focus on make sure that the plan is carried out legally. As a Chinese person, I don't suggest you emphasize CCP to amplify people's anxiety,just make the discuss confine to the matter in question..-Both BAYC and cryptopunks have made an amazing impact in China，nouns can do it too.---Regarding the news you quoted:
Nouns can potentially have a presence in the Chinese market, but there are concerns about regulatory risks and the legality of promoting NFTs on the Ethereum network in China. Some community members argue that localized activations by native Nouners can be done legally and without violating regulations, while others emphasize the potential risks and suggest focusing on other markets.
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Check it out, the real reading count from the website is 727, it never gets anywhere close to 200k as you said in the prop, 😂
The question seems to be about the reading count of a website mentioned in the prop. According to HashConfucius#4186, the post was read by 204,000 people, and the data comes from definews. They suggest asking a former employee of Definews to verify if the view data is falsified.
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Definitely I love expand Nouns to frontier. But why don't you start with small project?? In Japan case, I started with just 5 ETH from small grant team. Then I did meme campaigns. It worked very well. Then I created NOUN Japan community in discord. And refilled 5 ETH to move forward. After some tractions, I created prophouse Japan for sustainable development.
The question seems to be about expanding Nouns to other markets, such as China, and whether starting with a smaller project would be more effective. The conversation discusses the efforts made by the proposers to promote Nouns in China and their plans to create positive externalities and contribute on a more sizable scale. They mention that they have already done many proliferations for Nouns in China without any funding support from Nouns, using their personal resources. They also address concerns about Chinese regulations and emphasize the importance of finding the right people and letting them know what NounsDAO is. The proposers aim to foster Nouns memes by Chinese creators and have online activities on Shina Weibo, an open platform for Chinese creators to participate and engage with.
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hey Susuc, Thank you for so many detail reference material, it seems you also have a lot of plans to promote nouns in the Chinese market? That's good, because the Chinese market is a big opportunity for nouns and allows for different attempts.--You are not in mainland China, so your suggestion to abandon the mainland China market is completely understandable. But I am the opposite of you, I think there is **no other Chinese market that is more important than mainland Chinese market**.--Based on my observation of top collectors in mainland China, I find that there is a large population of top collectors who are potential nouns holders. But unfortunately, they don't realize the groundbreaking significance of nounsDAO. This proposal will help them learn about nouns, and these top collectors will make their own judgments and i trust they will join.--You don't need to teach them how to use crypto exchanges and bank cards, those are not what you need to care about. The only thing we need to do is to **find the RIGHT people and let them know what nounsDAO is**. --if I remember correctly, you bought nouns in part because you listened to my partner <@797480395880661002> 's presentation on nouns. Obviously, you also have good judgment. And you should know all of these things will happen again in the same way to the top Chinese mainland collectors.--Continuing to respond to your question.
Based on the conversation, the main concern is about promoting Nouns in the Chinese market due to regulatory risks and the legality of NFTs in China. The proposer of Proposal 211 believes that they can bring awareness to Nouns through curated activations without issuing or selling tokens, which would not violate regulations. They also emphasize the value of having native Nouners executing localized proposals. However, some community members express concerns about the potential risks and suggest focusing on smaller, distributed teams and individuals for collaboration in the Chinese market.
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Honestly am puzzled myself, would like to know your change in stance, as this wasnt your stance when we were on a call before prop #211 was put on-chain. Or there is any misunderstanding? My assumption of being a catalyse that have onboarded you, which I shouldnt have? Was told you were preparing to bid for a nouns after the sharing on space. But nevertheless, the point I want to bring across is the effectiveness of tapping into existing network of connection to onboard new DAO member
The question seems to be about the change in stance regarding prop #211 and the effectiveness of tapping into existing networks to onboard new DAO members. Susuc.eth shared their bad experiences with the Nounscn community and how it shattered their idealistic fantasy of DAO governance. They mentioned that they don't support the prop and don't trust the fund with the people involved. However, HashConfucius mentioned that 80% of Chinese nouns holders have united because of prop 211 and that they are open to welcoming susuc.eth back to the Nounscn community anytime.
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Investment is all about people. Who to trust with the fund and check the quality of the prop/idea.--Especially, we are in this crypto world. Everything is about trusting our fund with the right person.--I don't think the prop will work, and I don't trust the fund with you guys.--Wish you guys have a nice year.
80% of Chinese Nouns holders have united because of proposal 211, and several Chinese Nouns holders have expressed their support for the proposal. The goal of the proposal is to build a platform where more Chinese builders can be active and help Nouns proliferate in mainland China.
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notice posting is nouner-only. think you'd open it to delegates too? no big deal either way, just wanted to say hi
The server will be opened to delegates as well, as HashConfucius#4186 mentioned they will set it up to allow delegates to join.
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So are you suggesting we shouldn't do this or do you think this will hurt nouns as well? 😅 -I honestly don't understand what your anxiety point.
There is a debate about whether the proposed approach for promoting Nouns in the Mandarin-speaking world is the right one. Some community members have concerns about the execution team in China and the potential impact on Nouns' brand. Others have had positive experiences with the team and believe that the proposal is worth pursuing. The conversation does not provide a clear answer to whether the proposal will hurt Nouns or not, as opinions are divided.
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Spare me the I just want to protect bro. -You sound like Gary Gensler dude. --I do not agree with your characterization of <@919252618260414474>, he's been very measured and even meek in all of our discussions.-Upon our first interaction, he struck me as someone who's very diplomatic. -After watching him handle one vicious attack after another, one low blow after another, I actually hold the conviction that if there's someone who has to lead the charge and build the Nouns community in China, it's him. --He has the unflappable temperament of a true leader. -He's stayed very calm, collected, and most importantly very respectful even under pressure. Even when you tried to make him look like a fool in the presence of his peers. --I did not like that one bit.-I'll tell you that right now.--Let's stop with the ad hominems too.--Nouns is not for saints, sir.--Second chances are Nounish. -If they made mistakes in the past, big mistakes...well I guess that giving them the chance to build something big and positive is the only way to help them redeem themselves, yeah?--👉 **A culture that does not give people the benefit of the doubt, a culture that is not centered on forgiveness will always tear itself apart and fall in dreadful ruin under the self-defeating weigh of its own toxic pettiness.**
Web3 is a philosophical movement built on a wholesome and futuristic culture fostered and powered by a set of software development techniques that are designed to promote openness and provide service guarantees that minimize our reliance on trust, thereby unlocking people's ability to coordinate effectively even on a global scale. The community will decide on the matter, and it is suggested that everyone who hasn't voted yet should hold off their votes until they've taken the time to dive deep into the issue. Prop 211 is a game-changer, and it is important to explore all sides of the issue before making a decision.
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Thank you everyone who took the time to read the prop. To echo Noun 74 - there are intangible values a builder bring to the table (resources, network of connections, industry known-how, etc); and we believe as a builder/contributor/community member/nouner we've displayed the use-case of such intangible value and our ability to execute from past/present contributions. --Fast forward to Prop #211; it is our tool allowing us to create positive externalities and to contribute on a more sizable scale, where we plan to leverage on the content created from these array of activations generated from Prop #211 to further tap into our network of connections to onboard quality and aligned individual directly into Nouns network/DAO. To add Prop #211 total ask is roughly 0.5% of current DAO's treasury holding, a manageable risk given we are venturing into a new untapped market that have significant potential. As prop builder we are also putting our reputation on the line and willing to commit our time to campaign Nouns, with Prop #211 as our calling to the DAO, our dedication to the project, our ambition to contribute.
The proposer of Proposal 211, Noun 74, aims to establish the Nounscn community to create positive externalities and contribute on a more sizable scale. They plan to leverage the content created from the array of activations generated from Proposal 211 to further tap into their network of connections and onboard quality and aligned individuals directly into the Nouns network/DAO. The total ask for Proposal 211 is roughly 0.5% of the current DAO's treasury holding.
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Thank you for pointing that out, yes we wrote a PR article for nouns and it got 200,000 reads in China, which is a good attempt to make more Chinese people aware of nouns.
A PR article for Nouns was written and received 200,000 reads in China, which helped increase awareness of Nouns among Chinese people.
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Thank you for the case you provided, I hope your friend is well and I appreciate your concern for my personal safety too.-TBH 211 is not big amount, I have never heard that 100E+ amount can alarm the Chinese regulation, if so, many punk holders should have problem.--And I have already explained this regulations problem with two long messages and quoted the relevant regulations.--Everyone can see that a large number of NFT projects in mainland China are doing very well. Is the regulatory issue only a problem for nouns?--For Tencent, their NFT strategy has shifted to Little Red Book which you may not know about. I am already in the process of connecting with the official Little Red Book for nouns to get in. Curious to ask which community you come from and why you ever delete your chinese msg post?--Thanks anyway for your interest in 211, but I'd like to hear more positive and constructive input rather than amplifying anxiety.
Regulatory risk is a primary concern when funding any prop, and the community wants the funds to be safe. The Chinese market is more suited for building many small, distributed teams and for individuals to collaborate and co-create. Building a massive community with significant investments and big brands is considered unwise and hazardous. It is suggested that launching a PropHouse round to attract Chinese creators to compete and present their ideas would be more secure, increase the favorability of Nouns among Chinese creators, and have a higher return on investment.
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To respond to your question in detail--1\ Weibo/Douyin to do the marketing is hard to proceed because of the Chinese law,-**Porsche and Land Rover have successfully used Weibo to issue NFR** (Chinese blockchain NFT), and I also discussed this plan with the head of the Weibo division, and nouns can move forward in exactly the same way legally. You don't have to worry about regulations at all about this, they have a rigorous legal department.If the plan cannot be implemented, we will refund the related fees. However, based on our research and experience with the local Chinese market, we dont have this concern.--2\ According to Chinese law, no crypto exchange can operate legally.-This prop has nothing to do with crypto exchange.--3\ it's illegal to sell/promote/buy NFT on ETH publicly.-**The word illegal is wrong, **the regulation is discouraged. If it's illegal, then should NFT holders in mainland China be sentenced to jail? Obviously not.-On April 13, 2022, the China Internet Finance Association, the China Banking Association, and the China Securities Association (the three associations) jointly issued the Initiative on Preventing Financial Risks Related to NFT does not prohibit NFT trading.--There are a large number of web3 summits in mainland China every year, and I have been invited as a guest speaker at many of them. These web3 summits are attended by tens of thousands of people each year and a large number of NFT related topics are discussed at the summits and no one is ever considered illegal.-The organizers of these events include at least 2 Hong Kong listed companies and one NASDAQ listed company. Would they hold so many summits if their legal department felt there was a regulatory risk?
The Chinese market is more suited for building many small, distributed teams and for individuals to collaborate and co-create. Building a massive community with significant investments and big brands is a very unwise proposal and hazardous. If Nouns wants to expand into the Chinese market, launching a PropHouse round to attract Chinese creators to compete and present their ideas is more secure, will increase the favorability of Nouns among Chinese creators, and will have a much higher return on investment.
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Understood there are regulations in China (isn't something new), could you address which activation in Prop #211 that might not be abiding by the regulation? Such insight would be more beneficial to the discussion. --Also like to reiterate my previous point, putting prop #211 proliferation aspect aside, Prop #211 being a localised prop built and executed by **native** nouner - This itself speaks value. Because as the DAO grow, we should and want to see more high level, aligned individuals or team bringing their industry known-how and resources to the table and contribute to the growth of Nouns as a open-source brand.
There isn't a specific activation in Prop #211 that is mentioned as not abiding by the regulation. However, the conversation highlights the importance of understanding the Chinese market and its regulations, as well as the value of having native community members contribute to the growth of Nouns as an open-source brand. The discussion also emphasizes the need for genuine connections and a focus on real builders in the community.
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The 7th part of the proposal, claims that NounsCN will seed the content and details about Nouns to ourmedia partners (web3 outlets & traditional media outlets). As a former member of a crypto media, I would personally take into account or even reject such content when evaluating stories because I need to think about whether the content would offend readers. Of course, the media does publish PR-related pieces, but they do so for a price. I wonder if NounsDAO is taking this route or if there has been another instance of this kind of localization in the past. Will public relations for the Web3/traditional media be paid for with the Treasury funds?
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6
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220,080
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220,080
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6.8
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22
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6.8
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Noun 74 and karl
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The proposal aims to introduce and expand the presence of NounsDAO in Mandarin-speaking communities, particularly in China, where blockchain and web3.0 technologies are rapidly gro wing.
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74
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