Proposal 298 (Q1893) : Difference between revisions

0x16b6936aefa8f70029bcf9ea97f7c72ea5ff9327

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16

0x55b0a25d697647281553a177321dad0a0bf9a148

Competitive industry, no edge, no track record in it, hardware is hard.

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1

0x70ece45cdc64a768f936ccb8ac851578251363e3

$250k to design and manufacture 50 boards does not make sense to me. $5k per board - 40 of which are handed out for proliferation purposes. After it is done, then what? We fund the manufacture of 3k to 5k boards based on this small sample? I do not think people are going to choose to run many nodes on these micro boards and if they are I do not think they will choose to do so on a board designed and developed by a lone builder with no practical experience in commercial hardware development or manufacturing logistics. I do not think its in any way realistic to try and compete against Raspberry Pi, BeagleBoards, Arduinos or Odroids and the other dedicated manufacturers that have spent many years and millions of $ on R&D, supply chain mgmt and distribution. This is not an effective use of treasury funds imo

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1

0xfc218f1164cfef8e4ec7c2aca8fb019dc8976214

Im generally with Hindsight on this one... its a fun project, but the economics just dont make sense, and its not a good enough mode of proliferation to justify the outsized per-unit costs. I MIGHT support a proposal like this if it was tied to a very strong, unique GTM strategy that would get Nouns in front of a new audience.

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20

0x1db19b9903c5510aa5a866ea643eb021cd12bda0

(noun40 voting via agora) I want to vote yes for this prop (I care about eth solo staking a lot!) but Im just not sure if its realistic to think solo stakers will choose to run their eth node on this type of board. my setup was this (https://twitter.com/noun40__/status/1627009674603290624; bought them on amazon and pieced them together): - intel nuc $454 - 32GB RAM $182 - 2TB NVMe SSD $173 total = $809 I just dont know if a ~$100 raspberry pi type board is something that ppl will realistically choose to run their eth nodes on.

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1

0x2ed22ea03fea3e5bd90f6fdd52c20c26ff6e1300

reVoteWithReason: hindsight & noun40

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0x75ca7ad7a0088f131abe8c11afec969ff15c3f73

1

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14

0xa4e232fceedb3f43c8e707f8cf20b6bcf30f10e1

we agree with other voters that these machines appear to not be future proofed enough for the intended validator use case

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0xba2b9804fbffa8f1a8f7dc8dd600e21268bef09f

1

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3

0x4575e437306d10ca7433e22796fff7dca70e6699

voting w 40 on this one

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Supported By

0x56af52a9611afda072a73afd0e1ff4c4e35ee94a

1

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0xe703f231ab056ecb99c92a1232cc1020acfc72f8

1

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0x59a55a61b6590f6a84a02ba93f256dba6a994da4

1

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1

0x9c74ae08fd4337e14786f086d911e964df35e623

Love this new iteration of the prop. Thank you for revising and resubmitting!

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2

0xa86882277e69fbf0a51805cdc8b0a3a113079e63

I support the introduction of Nouns in the DIY/Open source computers scene. If true, we would get a lot of positive repercussions and builders attention, since Nouns is a benevolent hackers club at heart. I would stick to a micro computer and try to compete with RaspberryPi. 5OC is an early nouns contributor, he is passionate and I am confident he can deliver something cool with this prop.

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2

0xdf6e59c6df1e9500fd35a76ff4c62f9901e90019

This vote is a bet on the founder. Im a fan of 5oc, hes proven himself to be great at execution (eg, organizing an NYC sailing event never having been to NYC) and an ability to iterate and adapt to improve on his ideas which admittedly are often at the draft stage when we first get to see them. I think there is a more tightly packaged version of the Noun Computer idea hidden inside this prop. One that is even more focused on eth solo staking and better sells that narrative. However, given my belief in 5oc im happy to vote for this iteration of the prop as i expect 5 to continue to iterate and, together with the nouns community, perfect his idea over the coming months. Would it be better to reject this prop and hope 5oc comes back with another, more polished proposal? Possibly. But the nature of the ideas we fund, and early-stage funding in general, is such that not all things are neatly packaged from the start, and this is especially true for ambitious proposals. We are making bets on people to bring their ideas and dreams to life, and this is a bet i think the dao should make.

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3

0xe7304ba0f157f2ade94015934284b6704bc72911

This is a revised proposal. I have reduced the scope and focused on delivering blueprints for a cool and affordable computer to run an Ethereum node. I believe this kind of project is necessary and would decentralize the network and make it more valuable. In my opinion, contributing towards the well-being of the whole ecosystem would increase recognition and respect for NounsDAO.

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2

0x3b60e31cfc48a9074cd5bebb26c9eaa77650a43f

The proposal has improved quite a bit since the feedback from the previous attempt. I think this is the way the DAO should work.

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2

0x3cbd57da2f08b3268da07e5c9038c11861828637

Let’s bring more of that tech model railroad club hacker energy to Nouns. Nouns Model Railroad Club ⌐◨-◨

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1

0x7c621d5954a4ac21a0fd741ab6f302398f29d644

My thesis as a delegate is: “Nouns has a unique role in the ecosystem as a gathering place around public goods.” I agree with Wilson and Krels reasoning here. This is a bet on 5OC to produce something interesting and to make Nouns into a gathering place for hardware hobbyists. I dont think that this makes sense for every solo staker, nor do I think that the market is necessarily a good one to be in given the competition from Raspberry Pi and others. Noun40 and Jihad both have thoughtful points here that we should pay attention to. At the same time, I believe that the value of a gathering place around hardware outweighs the downsides of the use case and the market. Hardware hackers are a very public goods oriented community that is filled with hobbyists. Id love to see them join the Nouns ecosystem, and I see this proposal as a first step to doing so. Even if this proposal doesnt pass, I hope that my and other For votes act as encouragement for hardware hobbyists to join Nouns.

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2

0x86030dbbce1c771ff6622c20455cd3619aa93c05

*background: im an electrotechnologist by trade with experience in distributed systems. despite not having worked in the space for years, i still follow along with certain areas of research.* the r&d costs associated with this proposal are very reasonable. with the recent arrival of frores airjet solid state cooling chips, theres an opportunity to revolutionise mini PCs. id expect this to have a major impact on ethereum staking nodes, especially since most are built on standard mini PC implementations. its an exciting time to get involved in this design space, especially from a public goods perspective. id love to see what collaborative opportunities arise from our involvement as strong proponents for solo staking. most setups are still very much diy and often a hodgepodge of off-the-shelf components. i understand that those with solo staking experience such as noun40, whove pieced together a mini PCs, dont expect people choosing to run on raspberry pi type setups. but with the advancement of revolutionary cooling tech, thats exactly where we are headed. taking a public goods approach to this design space is itself a competitive edge and would likely get the attention of those reporting on the space. regarding proliferation of a project such as this, id recommend starting at the hobbyist level, by reaching out to those with cult followings such as [n-o-d-e.net](https://n-o-d-e.net/) / [mosfet.net](https://mosfet.net/) who already take an interest in crypto and have done so since the early days. yes, hardware is hard, but not so much when its your area of expertise and youre playing in a collaborative space that leans heavily on open source, open standards, and expansible systems componentry. id be happy to consult to 5oc on the gtm for this type of project. ive worked extensively on the development and marketing of new products in energy management and tenancy billing that are analogous to solo staking nodes. there are a number of unique systems integrator approaches we could take and the unique brand positioning and public goods focus is very compelling imho. provided 5oc is happy to niche down even further, id gladly take a bet on this proposal and am therefore voting in favour.

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0xb8a9ed8d008fa1f161809f15a11f4161fb8b717e

57

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0xbc3ed6b537f2980e66f396fe14210a56ba3f72c4

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2

0xbd7dbab9aeb52d6c8d0e80fcebde3af4cc86204a

Appreciate all the votes on both sides here. I am voting for because I think this could turn into something exciting and I think the flow of funds, starting with funding to build out a proof of concept, makes sense and is a reasonable guard. It looks like this is not going to pass, so Ill just note some ideas - Could we first fund an exploration to build a proof of concept machine? I think people will be excited by some proof they can see. - Are we sure that going for a validator is the best simplification of the original prop (281)? I really liked the original props focus on hobbyists and learning. This feels Nounish. Is there a way we can push in this direction at a lower cost? Again, just a proof of concept people can get excited about? - Nounish design is cool, but where can we gain the most from your expertise? Are there any huge pain points we can solve since well be going 0 to 1? It feels like a lot of the work for a validator may be redundant? - In general, Id say dont hesitate to discuss with any and all Nouners to find the most exciting version of this, and then make sure to pitch that here. E.g. for this prop I think this may have amounted to one of the cheaaper validator options on the market, but this aspect wasnt really pitched. I appreciate fiveoceans sticking with this and trying to refine to arrive at something the DAO will support.

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6

0xdcb4117e3a00632efcac3c169e0b23959f555e5e

nom nom nodes

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0xe8d848debb3a3e12aa815b15900c8e020b863f31

17

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1

Sendorregisterdebt To Nouns

I love this idea, and while its difficult to execute on, even a partially successful version could be a good experience. My only request is that the computers be in the shape of the glasses.

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0xd97bcd9f47cee35c0a9ec1dc40c1269afc9e8e1d

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Team Name

Fiveoceans_dev

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Proposal Submission Date

25 May 2023

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Abstained By

0xe085327c5ad2f77147f10973fed45fb19d734f7e

0x8ac3ecf6973e020cc0e6e8989fb71b4a77d65987

3

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0xceed9585854f12f81a0103861b83b995a64ad915

2

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1

Proposal Duration in Months

on behalf of UglyDAO: Love 5oceans and believe he would do a great job with this but would like to see more refinement in the prop to ensure achieveable outcomes. The focus on solo stakers feels like a great alignment so more development of how that would work, educaiton materials etc would be helpful.

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Weekly Summary

This week:-1. Fiveoceans_dev proposed a project to create Noun Computers, single board computers designed to run Ethereum nodes.-2. The project aims to be more sustainable and cost-effective than using Raspberry Pi's.-3. The proposal required $150K for prototype design and manufacturing, and $50K for compensation.-4. The total cost for manufacturing 3K-5K units was estimated at $450K.-5. Fiveoceans_dev later canceled the proposal but welcomed further comments and suggestions.

Timestamp

9 May 2023

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Monthly Summary

This Month:-1. Fiveoceans_dev proposed a project to create Noun Computers, single board computers designed to run Ethereum nodes, aiming for sustainability and cost-effectiveness.-2. The initial proposal required $150K for prototype design and manufacturing, and $50K for compensation, with an estimated total cost of $450K for 3K-5K units.-3. Fiveoceans_dev later canceled the proposal but welcomed further comments and suggestions.-4. In their second attempt, they requested feedback and help in creating a step-by-step plan for Noun Computers.-5. After receiving votes and comments, fiveoceans_dev decided to cancel the proposal again to save time and resources, but remained open to further comments and suggestions.

Timestamp

1 June 2023

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Team Size

1

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4

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Sendorregisterdebt Value To Nouns

150,000

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100,000

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Transfer Value in ETH

66.57

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Proposal Budget in USD

250,000

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Proposal Budget in ETH

66.57

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Supporter Count

102

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Opposer Count

154

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Summary

The proposal introduces Noun Computers, credit card-sized computers designed for Ethereum staking. The goal is not to dominate the market but to unite developers and promote the NounsDAO culture. The compute rs will run on Linux and are aimed at Ethereum stacking, blockchain development, and programming learning.

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Abstain Count

5

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Question & Answer

<@738431505927241828> could you please help to make a step by step plan to make these Noun Computers?

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Are there not alternatives with those options already?

There are alternatives with different options, but the Noun-Computer and Noun-Breadbook together would allow users to study and develop custom circuits and setups in a tidy and clean way. The combination and form factor would be useful for learning programming and circuit design, and can be used with different modules such as camera, RFID, GPS, etc. The goal is to build a community around Nouns and Noun-Computers and target different audiences, including devs at ETH hackathons, attendees at ETH hackathons, and students at schools and universities.

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But let’s stick to Eth nodes….why would someone choose to run an Eth node on this experimental hardware vs the vast array of boards already available by companies that specialise in that area?

Someone might choose to run an Eth node on the experimental hardware because it doesn't take much space on the table, it's cheap, and it's Nouns-branded. Additionally, the Noun-Computer and Noun-Breadbook combination allows for studying and developing custom circuits and setups in a tidy and clean way. The long-term plan is to capture a niche, such as a computer that can run an Eth node and also be used for studying programming.

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Coming from a non-technical perspective, I think the prop is detailed enough to understand. And I'll **assume** most of the manufacturing and production costs are fair, given your expertise, which then comes several questions:--1. Target Audience – New to programming individuals-With the computers, am I right to say that you are targeting new, inexperienced technical coders to be onboarded to Nouns, and hopefully build for Nouns? I assume as such because of the educational component and the rawness of the computers. --If so, could your prop include some Noun-specific programme e.g. contest/event, that can definitely deliver this outcome as opposed to hoping for that outcome? I get that the hackathon has that element, but IMO, the way you frame it sounds like mere visibility for Nouns as opposed to having a Noun-specific challenge during the hackathon.--2. Fruits of investments-In your words, Phase 4 will be when NounsDAO harvest fruits from its investment. Since we're approaching from an investment POV, and the first 3 phases cost $990K, a cool M, in your opinion what kind of benefits can the DAO expect?--I don't think you're referring to computers as the fruits, because that will be just the DAO paying for the development of the computer. IMO, the prop feels like a lot of this can happen, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on how this benefits the DAO.--3. Where does the revenue from the computer sales go?-In Phase 4, $450K is used to manufacture 3k-5k computers, 400+400+30% is accounted for. Let's assume the lower quantity of 3K is manufactured, that leaves another 1,500 computers ready to be sold (or used somewhere).--Would love to see how the revenue will go e.g. offset the DAO's investment, or possibly use that to fund the patent/trademark application (which is another question on whether it's needed) or the booth at CES.

1. The target audiences for the Noun-Computers include:- i) devs at ETH hackathons - Noun-Computers will be provided for competitions, with plans to run Noun-specific competitions.- ii) attendees at ETH hackathons - Noun-Computers can be used to run ETH nodes or prototype new products/services with various modules.- iii) students at schools and universities - Noun-Computers can be used for general blockchain development education and Noun-specific applications.--2. The benefits for the DAO from this investment include increased visibility, onboarding more people to Ethereum development, and potentially creating a community around Nouns and Noun-Computers.--3. The revenue from the computer sales is not explicitly mentioned in the provided conversation.

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Hi, I am not aware of funding and investments of RoninDojo. I am sure you can download an open source project and make a single board computer and then focus on marketing it. But it doesn't bring anything new to the market. Why people would buy a copycat project from you? it is not about making a nounish packaging and branding.--For Noun-Computer and Noun-Breadbook it is a new combination and form factor that would be useful to learn programming and circuit design. It also can be used with different modules such as camera, RFID, GPS and still be elegant in size. You can run an ethereum node or develop application with one of the modules. You can sponsor ETH global hackathons by providing devices and giving dev a new tools to build on top of ethereum.

It is possible to make a computer board under a $60 budget using the am62 family MPUs that cost $7.6. The Noun-Computer and Noun-Breadbook are intended to be a new combination and form factor that would be useful for learning programming and circuit design. They can be used with different modules such as camera, RFID, GPS, and still be elegant in size. The devices can be used to run an Ethereum node or develop applications with one of the modules, and they can be used to sponsor ETH global hackathons by providing devices and giving developers new tools to build on top of Ethereum.

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I talked a lot with other members during NFT NYC that nouns is not about flipping nfts or getting profits. It is a community and network of creative people that would help you in the future to succeed in your own projects. --For example, I am a prop builder. What did I get from working with nouns? It is not money. It is experience to work on projects that I would not be able to do on my own. I cann't afford to buy 5 matching spinnakers for sailboats in korea, same for NY project. But with nouns, I proliferate nouns with my passion for sailing and I get a chance to work with sail makers, yacht clubs, illustrators, t-shirt manufacturesrs, and pins. As a technical person, I get chance to meet and work with people from different fields and it is priceless. As a sailor, I get chance to see sailmaking factory manhattan yacht club, meet new sailors etc. I think more nouners should have a hobby project and ask nouns to sponsor it. Or sponsor projects that create visibility. It is a win-win situation.--If we have good vibes, culture, traditions in the dao we would attract other members.

There isn't a direct answer to the question in the provided context. However, the conversation discusses the idea of having hobby projects funded by Nouns DAO and the potential benefits and risks associated with such investments.

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Look at it from different point of view. Nouns already does well funding content but how many more video/animation/illustration content do we want to fund? What does it give nouns? Are we spending $200,000 to compete with netflix and disney? I think we are not winning there as well. But it is not about domination and competition with others. It is about growing our network, onboarding people. Yes, $1 million is a big money but it would generate at least 3-4 great videos to show everyone (eth global hackathons, CES, some university etc). I think it is worth the money

The benefits that the DAO can expect from this investment include onboarding new, inexperienced technical coders to Nouns and potentially having them build for Nouns. The proposal aims to create a Noun-specific program, such as a contest or event, to ensure this outcome. However, there are concerns about the high cost and risk of the proposal, as well as the competitive and commoditized nature of the industry.

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Thank you for comments. I wonder if you would support a project that requests a smaller funding at the beginning for prototyping but still in the end would cost around $1m to finish and manufacture? Start with a prototype and comeback for each round? I thought it is better to put a whole proposal so that nouners understand what kind of commitment is required to make single board computers and build community of builders. --Also only first $200K will be transferred to me and rest of 82% money will be in safe and used only after confirmation of prototype. I invite everyone to participate in the judging the outcome of the prototype stage. I would love to add you to the multi-sig as well.--While $1.1m is a big money it will generate visibility across many ETH hackathons. IMO, it is best to fund ideas that can generate constant presence for nouns in many locations.--I think I have enough expertise to make good computers, distribute and sell 3K units. Also, I see nouns as a community of talented people and know many would volunteer to advice if something unsolvable would happened.

It is possible to support a project that requests smaller funding at the beginning for prototyping and then requires additional funding for completion and manufacturing. The first $200K will be transferred to the proposer, and the rest of the funds will be in a safe and used only after confirmation of the prototype. The proposer invites everyone to participate in judging the outcome of the prototype stage and is open to adding people to the multi-sig. The project aims to generate visibility across many ETH hackathons and fund ideas that can create a constant presence for Nouns in various locations.

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what do you consider the best case outcome / success from the prop? how much different the outcome (and project costs) be if we were to leverage similar existing boards