Proposal 186 (Q1871)
From Nouns Dev
A Nouns proposal.
| Language | Label | Description | Also known as |
|---|---|---|---|
| English | Proposal 186 |
A Nouns proposal. |
Statements
57
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House Of Nouns
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80
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10 December 2022
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186
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7
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I like the tool and it has a lot of potential, but as I stated for prop house, compensation is way too high.
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I love this product and love this team. I use it multiple times a week. I almost think this proposal is a victim of its own success. The team has proven that they can ship significant features much faster than this roadmap indicates. To justify paying several team members what is essentially a full-time salary, I think either: 1) the proposal should be shortened, but with the same monthly pay or 2) the roadmap should be further fleshed out to fill 6 months. If one of those two changes were made (or some other change in a similar direction) this would have a yes from me.
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Budget is way too big in my opinion. Upper limit for a full time job, but its not
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- I love the UI and do want to see this exist but dont think the setup is fair - Other DAOs pay 10E for the exact same team to set this up for them (ie. see their rug radio proposal) - Our DAO is basically paying $200k+ USD / y / person salaries to build this out, yet the business itself is funded by VCs already and is building a very similar product? - Would like to see the team propose again with something more similar to their rug radio prop. Im cool with just being a user of their main product, we dont need to spend millions to have the nouns brand on it.
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I am a simple noun, I want more proliferation and less governance.
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- I love the UI and do want to see this exist but dont think the setup is fair - Other DAOs pay 10E for the exact same team to set this up for them (ie. see their rug radio proposal) - Our DAO is basically paying $200k+ USD / y / person salaries to build this out, yet the business itself is funded by VCs already and is building a very similar product? - Would like to see the team propose again with something more similar to their rug radio prop. Im cool with just being a user of their main product, we dont need to spend millions to have the nouns brand on it.
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Ive had the pleasure of working with the collective team since they implemented the platform (collective.xyz, then lil HON) for lil nouns and have been soliciting feedback from the community since.
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discourse is failing us. governance context and conversations are more spread out than ever. there need to be a place where voters can come to evaluate all the necessary context before voting even if they havent been paying attention prior. house of nouns is the main product/team thats making a meaningful attempt to solve this important problem. I use it every week. strong yes from me.
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10 December 2022
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I will abstain on this version of the proposal. It looks like it will be iterated upon and resubmitted.
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Generally, we believe that getting better at governance is imperative for Nouns DAO, so welcome and support all builders working in this space! To wit, were coordinating with HON to host a debate to bring more discussion to their prop. However, given that Agora shares some overlap with HON, we are refraining from directly commenting on this prop and are voting abstain onchain, so as to not bias the DAOs decision.
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<@821168068898062397> congrats on launching!-does it show somewhere the proposal actions?-I saw the budget, but where can I see the actions in more detail?
The proposal actions are not currently shown in detail, but rocketman#1802 mentioned that they are working on adding this feature.
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Why use collective over ens
House of Nouns is built by Collective, and if someone changed their profile picture explicitly on Collective, it is prioritized. However, ENS integration is planned for the future.
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<@357180848161816578> <@376924641882537984> <@821168068898062397> <@959005197244448848> Would you be interested in doing a Twitter Spaces debate about the prop tomorrow? Maybe voice is a good medium to discuss this in-depth rather than text? Would be hosted by Agora, we've done several of these for previous props--(Reminder/disclaimer that Agora will be voting abstain on this prop with its Nouns)
A Twitter Spaces debate about the prop was suggested, and some users expressed interest in the idea. However, no specific date or time was confirmed for the debate.
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ah sorry, it looks like answer is right here. So the frontend is also not currently open source? Will it be open source in the future?--> no one commits to nouns.wtf repo--i don't think this is true https://github.com/nounsDAO/nouns-monorepo/commits/master/packages/nouns-webapp
The frontend of Nouns DAO is not currently open source. There is no clear indication in the conversation whether it will be open source in the future.
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also for the other nouners here, building tools like this is great but I feel we should actually be encouraging other nouners to use them if we're gonna spend millis on em--ie. what about replacing https://nouns.wtf/vote with a link to agora or HoN ?
A single link with a dropdown to choose a frontend for voting could be a solution. This would allow users to select from multiple frontends like Native, House of Nouns, Agora, etc., without favoring any particular one. Implementing this may be as simple as a pull request on GitHub.
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also has collective raised money to date? does it hope to later? are these funds seen as revenue to collective.xyz or investment in it?
Collective has not been mentioned in the provided conversation, so there is no information available about whether it has raised money or plans to do so in the future.
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Also is there any clarity around who owns this? Once it makes profits does nouns dao get it all or do the devs?
There is no clarity provided in the conversation about who owns the profits from the project mentioned. No answer located.
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Also will the product forever be called “house of nouns” and be attached to our brand? Will the other users have nouns branding on it (as prop house does)?--Like if anata wants to use it is it anata house, or how does that work?
The product will always have memetic value back to Nouns, and the Nouns branding will be visible even when used by other users like Anata. It can be called Anata House or something similar, but the Nouns branding will still be present.
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aside from the open source issue, which I believe should be address but easily fixed:--what's the main difference between house of nouns vs agora?
House of Nouns and Agora have different focuses. Agora is delegation-heavy in the UI, with proposals as a subset of delegate information. House of Nouns is a mixture of nouns.Wtf/vote, discourse discussions, and discord vote reason bots. Agora is for people who don't want to or don't have time to stay keyed in, so they delegate. House of Nouns aims to make it easy for voters to understand what is going on in each proposal, so they don't see voting as a job and don't have to delegate. Both platforms are useful for different purposes.
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But this is the main part of what they suggest developing in this prop no? Signalling
Yes, the main part of the proposal in question is focused on developing a signaling system. House of Nouns aims to build a consolidated layer and a clean space for proposal discussion, temp checks, and voting, while also integrating ideas from prop lot and other sources. The goal is to create a more efficient and user-friendly experience for Nouns DAO governance.
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- do nouns holders get that token? -- collective to me looks like a very similar product, how is it diff than HoN? -- can we formalize that? Like our $xx contribution to this gives us yy% of collective? What cap did the VCs invest at?
Nouns holders will likely receive tokens as builders and supporters of the open framework, with Nouns being a large recipient. The difference between Collective and House of Nouns is that Collective aims to be an all-in-one product for NFT DAOs, while House of Nouns focuses on proposal discussion. Formalizing the contribution and percentage of Collective ownership is not part of the current proposal, but the conversation is open for further exploration, such as having Nouns lead a small round.
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For sure, but who do you favour then? How do you select a single one to replace. I guess we could via proposal to implement one.-But in saying that, the frontend itself is also replaceable, so we could launch a duplicate of nouns.wtf with one as the dao tab.
A possible solution for selecting a single frontend to replace the current one is to implement a dropdown menu on the DAO page that allows users to choose a frontend. This could be done via a proposal.
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For the me to give a prop like this a pass it’s more about the UX demo and explaining how it uniquely brings value. --I know it’s called house of nouns - but if you think about it like it’s “house for nouners” (holders) and focus is on that it might be good. --What do nouners do? Should they do? Pain points they can’t do elsewhere and demonstrate how this solves that and becomes the front end for noun holders
House of Nouns aims to make it easier for voters to understand what is going on in each proposal and improve the overall governance experience. The team is working on discovering, ideating, and getting feedback on the best user flows possible for efficient and fun governance. They plan to share some basic explorations of the user experience. However, the current proposal will be canceled, re-organized, and come back with a lower ask.
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gm ser, read ur answers--really like the point of empowering and trying to get more people with small votes to vote, and ways to bring all the conversation into one place (discourse, discord, ideally even twitter) --I feel like we didn't get answers to the questions more related to the business like--- Will you ask for more funds in the future if its not self sufficient in 6 months?-- Who owns this business is it nouns dao or collective?-- when there is sustainable revenues, who gets those? -- How does this look to collective, an investment or revenue or ?-- Are all 4 devs full time on house of nouns? -- Does collective do anything else and has it raised money from any one else / will it ever seek to?-- Is there any negotiation room around salaries? $200k/y isn't unreasonable but just curious if there's also some equity type pay involved for team or if that is something that should ever be considered
1. House of Nouns will likely seek further funding if not self-sustainable in 6 months, similar to Prop House. The goal is to have a public goods mechanism for capital and revenue from other DAOs for bespoke upgrades or other fee structures.-2. House of Nouns is a public good, owned by the community.-3. Revenues will fund further development of House of Nouns and the supporting framework, ideally through a public goods DAO that accrues builders and capital to make governance accessible and fun.-4. The team will be putting in full-time work on House of Nouns, with some members working on it part-time in addition to other projects.-5. Collective has raised money from VCs and still owns the company. They will likely explore alternative funding methods in the medium term.-6. They are moving towards a model where builders can be incentivized with equity/ownership in the public goods framework DAO, but not in the short term. Salaries are still necessary.--House of Nouns will have a token built on the Revolution protocol that rewards capital and builders equally. Nouns would likely be a large recipient of these tokens. Collective.xyz is their main product, focused on being an all-in-one product for NFT
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Got it but no on-chain nounish governance? Or is the model multisig executes props that come out of anata house on prop house?
Prop house is funded separately, and the rest is multisig governance. There is no on-chain nounish governance in the current model.
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I'm a bit confused as to which part of the code will be open sourced.--I would expect that if nouns dao is funding software development, then the code should be completely open sourced.-is that no the case?
The frontend will be open-sourced by the end of the 6 months, while the backend is TBD but will be pushed ASAP. The focus is on prioritizing open-sourcing the backend, discussion, data, etc., to create an interoperable layer for the whole community. This is seen as a major step to scaling Nounish governance, preventing fragmentation/centralization, and enabling other builders to build amazing products.
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Isn’t this House of Nouns just skinned different? Same team, right?
House of Nouns and Lil Nouns are different projects with some overlap in their goals. House of Nouns is focused on creating a better quality proposal client, while Lil Nouns' founding team is working on Prop Lot, an idea signaling forum. There is some overlap between the two projects, but it is unclear if they are trying to compete with each other.
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I suppose delivering delegation itself is a 0 to 1 idea I can understand but the UI/UX on this is what will make that happen. --Which is why I think having this maybe split into work a piece of work where you work on that first and come back to fund it’s development makes sense. --And maybe pull in the lil nouns guys too so you can work with them on this?
The main difference between House of Nouns and Agora is their focus and user interface. Agora is delegation-heavy in the UI, with proposals as a subset of delegate information. House of Nouns is a mixture of nouns.Wtf/vote, discourse discussions, and discord vote reason bots. Both platforms have their unique uses and cater to different aspects of the Nouns DAO community.
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No worries, some followups--- what does community owns it means? There will be a token or smth later? For users of HoN or?--- what did these VCs fund? Like how do they seek to profit if you raised money from them? Is collective building something else?--- if you’re raising money in medium term can our dao own a piece of the business for providing this funding? Feels like others have / could be giving money for equity but we aren’t? --Thanks for giving answers btw and being here to discuss ❤️❤️
1. There will likely be a token built on the Revolution protocol that rewards capital and builders equally. Nouns would be a large recipient of the token.-2. Collective.xyz is their main product, focused on being an all-in-one product for NFT DAOs, while House of Nouns is more focused on proposal discussion.-3. The idea of Nouns DAO owning a piece of the business for providing funding is not part of the current proposal, but they are open to exploring it further, such as having Nouns lead a small round.
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Pre discord dissolution that was kind of the case? But there is more of a Nouns ecosystem. Where Nouns sits at the center of a constellation of subdaos that have their own treasuries and work to acquire rep in Nouns or achieve their own goals.--I am starting to view them as political parties in a complicated network--And each of them have been contributing ideas and solutions to push the space forward
House of Nouns is an attempt to become a top-tier client for governance and push the needle forward while remaining interoperable and encouraging competing solutions to come to life. The goal is to build a consolidated layer and one clean space to accomplish everything related to Nouns DAO governance. The team is focused on empowering individual voters and providing a better user experience for proposal discussions, voting, and feedback. They plan to integrate with Prop House and other platforms to create a seamless experience for users.
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These are good questions from <@357180848161816578> though…--- what is the difference between collective and house of nouns? Cause you would presume collective would have a clear pathway to revenue to get investment …. But nouns is funding the development without same?--Like how much was raised by vc funding at what cap? And were there any commitments to them in terms of equity or token distribution?
The main difference between House of Nouns and Agora is their focus and user interface. Agora is delegation-heavy in the UI, with proposals as a subset of delegate information. House of Nouns is a mixture of nouns.Wtf/vote, discourse discussions, and discord vote reason bots. Both platforms have separate focuses and are useful for different purposes.
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what do you think solution to this is though? smaller length of prop to build a set features we've proposed in the 6 month trial? but prioritizes what ppl want most?
The House of Nouns team decided to cancel the proposal, re-organize, and come back with a lower ask. They will be seeking feedback on their new draft once it's live.
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just added focus mode and are working on the Feelers (half-backed prop ideas feedback) feature + Discourse ingestion, any other features people want to see in the short term?
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Also am I supposed to judge this proposal based on its past usage?
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What happens when the Subdao gets a subdao
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214,999
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6
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340
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312.42
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6
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4
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Collectivexyz
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The House of Nouns team is requesting 340 ETH for six months to continue developing their governance platform for NounsDAO. The platform aims to make governance participation fun and easy, with an int uitive interface that has already seen success and growing user numbers.
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